Road rage: are Belgian drivers really THAT bad?

I'm with Tamara on this one. Especially on the motorways, drivers in Belgium (notice I didn't say Belgian drivers) have a real problem with speeding. I usually drive at the speed limit and am always the slowest one! This changes immediately when I get to the Netherlands, where the drivers actually treat the speed limit as an UPPER limit, not a lower one! Even in Germany, renowned for its autobahns, the drivers travel more slowly than in Belgium. I'm no gran, but I have a concern for safety that most Belgian highway drivers do not seem to share. (Note: I'm also a cyclist and for the most part I find drivers in Brussels to be considerate towards me, though not to other automobile drivers).

I'm with Tamara as well. Not only on motorways but also in common neighbourhoods speed has come to an unrealistic level. Since the seventies cars have been tripled but not the roads. Simple conclusion: more traffic everywhere. People seems to be in a hurry but they aren't. Let's say it's more or less a way of egoism! 50 to 60 % of the traffic by car is less far than 5 km!
Don't tell me you have to hurry for such a distance. Leave earlier, jump on a bus or take your bicycle. And if you decide to take your car, keep to the speedlimit! More cars, higher speed ... it's not fun to live in small Streets.

I have first hand experience of awful driving here. I was driven into while stationary at lights by a guy who took a corner far too quickly and side swiped me. The guy tried to drive off and I called the police!! The police would not punish him for this.

They try to force you to pull out honking at the split second a light changes. I have 2 babies in my car and they still tail gate in a way that is so dangerous it makes me so angry. I now sit in the slow lane to keep away from these idiot drivers. Statistics for road deaths may not be high but most days I have seen crashes of one form or another.
Most cars have dents or scratches on them. The Carosserie is the best business I think here as they are so busy. Maybe this is why the insurance is so expensive !!!

If it was not for superior safety in new cars then the statistics quoted for deaths would be very high. I wonder what the number of crashes for the country is compared to the rest of Europe? I fear for myself and my children driving in this country whoever they are. It really is worrying. This is in lots of areas of Belgium not just the cities.

Then there is the safety of road works while driving on a road. Maybe you could get a for and against on this as where I live every day they just seem to dig the road up for fun and this makes driving even more dangerous. health and safety hmmm - what's that !!

Maybe driver awareness courses should be part of the driving test here if it is not already. I know many nationalities here and I have never heard someone say "wow they drive to considerately and sensibly here"

Yet I can't take public transport to get away from this as my trams in my area are so old you cannot get buggies on them unless you have a buggy built for a dolly. These trams are n operation but also in the Tram museum which made me chuckle.

I was taught at school "Manners maketh man", maybe some courteous driving would help. I always make sure I say thank you.

But as mentioned it is not just roads. Some stores are the same as said before. I came here with no views on road safety. Now I fear for my car, my car insurance excess and my insurance price and far more importantly my young children.

How can things be improved ??!!

My personal belief is that this country has way too many foreign drivers who treat the roads as if they were in their own non-european countries.

And just because the slogan says, plus simple, plus claire, doesn't mean is the best way to drive.

As someone who is going in a roundabout and who has full momentum, why do I have to stop to let somebody coming in from a smaller road?

Also, how is that safe when in other european countries this rule doesn't exist?

And even getting on buses is dangerous. As somebody said, these people don't even know how to use the break pedal and a bus ride is always a bump ride because bus drivers speed up, only to slam on the breaks 1 second later.

Sure, there are worse countries to drive in, specially in latin america, but I thought this being the capital of europe, I thought it would be a bit more civilized. Then again, Brussels is more like the capital of a third world nation nowadays.

I'm with Kieran on this one. The drivers to watch out for are those with non Belgian numberplates who clap their mobile phones to their ears or shoulders while driving, or even text! Diplomatic cars park anywhere they wish with absolute impunity. The list of accusations can be as long or as short as the length of a piece of string.

It's so easy for newcomers like Tamara to wail about Belgium, and to imagine that life in Brussels exactly mirrors that in the whole of the rest of Belgium. Nothing could be further than the truth. But she will never drive there to find out. So few of these "comeovers" ever take the trouble to explore the suburbs of Brussels, let alone discover that Belgium has 9 provinces! Isn't it so gloriously easy to slag off the foreign country to which you've just moved like wide-eyed bushbabies? But, lads and laddies, we've heard it all before. Many a time and oft.

Never mind. At least native Belgians manage to hang onto their cars for half a decade or longer, and strangely manage to survive their daily commuting despite the ignorant Anglo-Saxons with GB numberplates who sit doggedly at traffic lights blocking the paths of emergency vehicles, when everybody who actually lives here knows that the law requires you to get out of their way.

A proliferation of painted road markings now educates motorists into priority at junctions - so why moan about the "priorité à droite" rule when in town it is so often denied? Like straight cucumbers and Eurobananas, it's a standard complaint, made without thinking - much.

Never mind, with any luck these bushbabies will leave Belgium soon when their contracts are up, or the end of their tether is reached, and the air will be free of their complaints. As Nature abhors a vacuum, they will be replaced, and no doubt feel prompted to raise the same issues in the Bulletin again, where bushbaby will speak unto bushbaby.

I for my part will carry on cruising the safe Belgian motorway network, singing allelujahs that I'm not on the M25, or the M40, or the A1, or Spaghetti Junction ......

I won't judge any of the two articles. What I am shocked about is the level of racism on the texts above. It seems that the actual subject is: Us against them (whoever "us" and "them" may be...)

I love it! Blame the ridiculously poor and incredibly dangerous driving on "others" in Belgium. Yeah, right.....

The comments about the M25 make me laugh. Basic statistics say a great deal about driving in Belgium. A long time since I visited this site and I see that it is of course still Brussels centric.
Try the dirt tracks out in the country that you pass for three years every day in a 70 limit to see the idiocy of priority to the right when some farmer wanting to make a point pulls out in his tractor. You want to follow the rules every day for three years? Expect a high chance of the driver behind over tacking or hitting you from behind.
Try some of the roads where there is NO WARNING that a junction is even present, let alone that is has priority. Belgium has a very bad reputation for road safety and in fact the worst in this part of Europe by far. According to the papers this week, up to 20 percent of the drivers at certain days of the week and at certain times are driving drunk.
Give me the M25.

Fatalities per million inhabitants from the EU for our M25 fearing EU flag waver thankful for "safe" (Ha!) Belgian roads.

2012.

Per Million...

Belgium...: 73.

UK............: 28.

Oh, and UK drivers are taught to get out of the way of emergency vehicles.

And to add yet more, UK drivers are FAR more likely to follow rules and regulations due to being used to Policed roads, speed cameras, a points based license system that can see it gone for a year for a couple of speeding offences, the loss of their license for at least a year for one single drink drive offence with further consequences such as loss of job and horrendous insurance quotes when they get their license back.
None of this really applies in Belgium where the countryside you speak of (that you think no expats reader could visit let alone live in) is littered with Jupiler cans thrown from passing cars by the drivers. In fact, in one road in our village one person started hanging them from trees in order to make a point. Mind you, the mayor, Brankaer, the guy in charge of road safety is a recently convicted drunk driver (fact, xpats.com) and given his claim in the paper that he had never done it before, a lying drunk driver to boot. Still in his job. Driving within weeks.
Have you considered that moaning expats might have a point? Obviously not. As to those pouring in to replace those leaving, I think you might like to speak to the moving companies, the real measure of what is going on. More going out than in, in my case to Prague (with it's own problems but not the taxation I suspect you have not experienced) and the days of the fully expensed move to glorious Belgium is far from what it once was. Still, enjoy your bubble while free of the dangers of the M25, but please do not complain when you find yourself plowing in to the side of an aggressive drunk who was determined that NOBODY was going to take his priority even when you had no clue that road was even there.

I agree with you, Emono, that some of the comments rapidly turned into racist remarks. Can't say I'm surprised, though.

What I will say is that drivers here take this "priority to the right" way too far that even if they do not have priority, they take it anyway. For example, coming off a round-a-bout, people on side roads DO NOT have priority and this is clearly marked by the "shark's teeth" on their side of the road - this means they should wait. Many times they do not wait and then are so rude when you proceed as normal.

I've also had the experience where selfish motorists (not with foreign number plates) just stop in the middle of the road without a care in the world, no hazard light to signal there may be an issue, nothing; and when you toot them to just advise that you are passing, the suddenly speed past you to the point of almost causing an accident - simply because they want to be jerks.

As a foreigner who has driven on the right as well as the left side of the road in different countries, I have to admit that it is quite the challenge driving here. People are selfish, impatient, rude and avid risk takers. And as one writer said, this s readily seen with all the dents and bangs on almost every car I see everyday.

God help us all!

Today, first thing I see (06:30) is there is likely to be ice on the road. Creeping around the bends I see somebody catching me up. He gets two meters from my bumper and flashes his lights because I'm not going fast enough for him. The situation is unsafe and so I indicate right and slowly pull to the kerb.

He passes.

Less than a minute later I notice headlights pointing skyward and there he is in a ditch. The news today was full of reports of such drivers. This was only one of the episodes of shocking driving standards that I have seen today in less than 90 minutes on the road.

It is not racist to point out a nasty fact, that Belgium has bad drivers, badly trained drivers, drunken drivers and nasty roads backed by the absolute madness of giving side roads (often not even what you would call a road!) priority over traffic doing 70KPH and of course, a great deal more.

It is comical that some EU official (I could be wrong but doubt it) would suggest that a country with among the safest roads in the world, the UK, would be more dangerous than the nasty little road safety issue that is Belgium

as mentioned previously it is the belgian system of rules, education and enforcement which is at fault, not the drivers of a particular origin.

There is an article elsewhere on the site about lowering the drink drive limit which is indeed laudable, but why not enforce the limit already in place. In 6 years here I have been breath tested once (2pm on a monday afternoon!!).

Traffic fines and bans are laughable and are not a deterrent. Seriously, two week bans you can choose take while you are on holiday in France? huge numbers using there mobiles whilst driving also

Belgians clearly aren't taught to use roundabouts as for example in the UK. Very poor use of lane discipline and use of indicators when turning left or right leading to uncertainty for those trying to enter the roundabout and inefficient traffic flows

As for priorite de droite (or 'priority a twat' as I call it) is completely impractical even if there is some logic in theory. Traffic emerging from the left completely abuse their privilege leading to frightening situations particularly in poorly designed road lay-outs.

Finally can anyone explain who has priority if at a crossroads 4 cars simultaneously arrive from each direction?

http://lidiageringer.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/surviving-the-belgian-roads/

I just wish more Belgian cars came with indicators as standard

The statistics that show that there are many more accidents in Belgium compared to the Netherlands says it all.

Funny you people seem to think they don't teach us how to properly drive and drive safely as well, they do. We usually even drive by the rules the first few years we pass our exam. Eventually, though, a lot of people stop using indicators (which i find very annoying), I do enjoy my speed though. I would prefer every person drive as fast as they can manage. If you can't handle your car at high speeds you should take the bus, this is Mad Max country, this is Belgium. We like to drive fast and die young. I will likely die, as some of my friends and family, on the road. Welcome to Belgium, Speed or GTFO!

That last post kind of sums up the problem really. Belgian road safety is bad from top to bottom. The joke is they STILL insist the problem is the foreigners.

I doubt this will ever be read, but I just read the case for the defence. What a load of complete and utter twaddle! Usual defence of "some Countries are worse", that it would all be good if it were not for the foreigners. The fact Greece is worse is a terrible problem for Greece, not an endorsement for Belgium!

Random and badly sign posted priority to the right makes this an easy country to drive in?! At any speed?! Seriously?

"" It is a rule that if followed correctly, (priority to the right) allows one to drive at high or low speeds and avoid collisions.""

Absolute nonsense! It is NOT POSSIBLE to follow the rules correctly when the road on the right cannot be seen, is not expected, is not signposted, and the drunken idiot takes priority without even looking!

Honest, Kieran. You have the most dangerous roads in Northwest Europe BY FAR and you STILL try and defend this madness. Belgium is an Island of third World driving standards in a largely civilised part of the World and you, and your attitude are Dinosaurs and part of the problem.

AND, I am typing this from a café in Overijse, at 15:30 in the afternoon where everybody is driving and everybody is drunk in the middle of a working day. Seriously, your denial will never help this situation.

To add to this, yet ANOTHER regular, BELGIAN, from the café was buried at the weekend. Drunk and a single vehicle incident.

I long learned that drivers here are taught differently; only look to the front ... to only either smoke or phone but not do both at same time (unless you have an automatic) or to double park right in front of your newsagent even if there is a space 5m further down; but the other day i was breathalysed in Overijse at 0900 in the morning, with my family and disabled mother in the car as a routine check. i asked tongue in cheek if it was for caffeine as it was so early. The officer replied "you'd be surprised how many we catch". Thinking I was on the road when there were so many OTL drivers around makes one pull up and think about public transport.
But i am sure everyone agrees that over the past years the behaviour at zebra crossings have improved - apart from the old people who don't believe you have stopped for them, and the drivers behind who just pull out and overtake if they don't agree with you.
On the other hand we have a little 50m one way one track lane between two roads near us. In the evening people leaving the European quarter would really like to go the wrong way up this, and there is not an evening where we don't see 3 to 4 cars just cutting through the wrong way....

I've always assumed that the nonchalant wave of the hand you get after almost being killed by a driver here is actually taught in the driving lessons and forms part of the test.

Kieran, is it just ignorance, racism, or you have a specific problem with Sicily? Or maybe you live on stereotypes?

'Furthermore, Belgium benefits from one of the best road networks in the world; from floodlit motorways to solid concrete roads, you won’t find an easier country to drive in.' Did you ever drive from Brussels to Luxembourg?

Ah, and the last sentence is so terribly nonsensical that it's almost funny.

Being a Brussels arboriginal driving around for over 40 years, so the historical view. The prosecution is correct, or rather was correct 40 years ago. Driving was wild west fun, one in ten was driving carefully (zombie) and a real nuisance. You were handling the steering wheel the way you pull up your pants by fast alternating upward movements. Now only one in ten perhaps is uncivilised and a pain in the neck. Elsewhere? I remember Bostonians not respecting traffic lights, commuters speeding between Miami and Fort Lauderdale and people from Napoli (Italy) correctly driving our way. And the snails on British country roads at the time (now they seem to have become more the way we were). Convergence.

Driving more slowly is cool! Don't you all know that?

I think it is funny that all foreigners are complaining. I come from Portugal and I think Belgian drivers, like the Portuguese are good drivers.. Belgians also have better manners in queues and traffic jams, where they let people in rather than causing more congestion.. As in every country there will always be those that really should hand in their driver licence, but that is nothing to do with the whole nation... Roads are good, cars are good quality and people are generally well mannered...so since I live here I have to say I like the way they drive, I like the culture and I just wished it rained less!!! And if I don't like something I can always go back to where I came from...

And where you came from, everything is perfect? So why did you come to Belgium?

Oh, that's a tough one!
Not so much to the priority to the right, because we can check it before, but more with all the rest.
And before any comments like "why did you come to Belgium then?" I'd like to say that I pay taxes here, and criticism should always be looked at as a constructive idea.
The YIELD sign.
Does any one in Belgium understand what it means?

To yield means to give preference to. That means, if you are on the right and you have that right ahead, you MUST (obligation) to give preference to the other people.
Having said that, ever seen a Belgian on a roundabout?
Roundabouts ALWAYS have preference. EVEN TO BUSSES, bikes, trucks.... Anything, UNLESS if there's a sign saying the contrary.
Also, it's a good thing to blink when you are driving on a roundabout, so the people behind or ahead of you know what your intentions are.
Like many other countries, the issue here is that once the person sits behind a wheel, then think they are omnipotent. Remember, there are many old people driving, many bikes in the city. Pedestrians... Old people.... Many foreigners, many trucks and vans, and bikes, and assholes (independent of their nationalities) So it is wise to be prudent and always watch your speed and your signs.
May God be with you.

LOL at the African complaining about Audi drivers asking her to get out of the left lane!

Whenever you see a car doing 80 Km/h on the highway, you can count on them being African. I do admire the lack of understanding Africans have of the concept of "urgency".

Also LOL at watching African women try to park a car.

And seriously now ... You're in no position to write about Belgium if you've only been here a few months (as you say yourself).

The priority from the right is a way to avoid traffic lights - you have to drastically slow down to make sure no one's coming from the right and if not you can continue. It's dangerous, yes.